So, this happened last night...
Jun. 1st, 2014 02:19 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
lonemagpieMarital strife over Da Vinci's Demons...
HER: Whoa, Riario was so brave and heroic in what he did.
HIM: What part?
HER: Going into the river and cutting his wrists.
HIM: That's not heroic.
HER: Yes it is. Francesco tells him he won't get absolution until he dies, and he goes looking for Sixtus, who'd probably whip him at least, but Sixtus is in Naples, so Riario throws himself on the mercy of God - and if he needs to die to be absolved then he will. That's bravery.
HIM: No it isn't. For one thing it's selfishness - he just wants what *he* wants to feel better. Though really he's just justifying the fact that he has nowhere else to go, dramatically speaking.
HER: Yes, he puts in the hands of God.
HIM: Bollocks, he puts in his own hands with the daggers in them. And gets it wrong. Cold water make the veins shrink, and he'd never get the right angle, and that edge never reached the right wrist... Besides, if he was putting it in God's hands he'd be standing on a hilltop in wet armour in a thunderstorm going "well go on then, what's it to be, you cunt?!" But he didn't.
HER: He sacrifices himself!
HIM: No, that'd be throwing himself into a hopeless battle or something.
HER: It's an in imatatio Christi sacrifice. He says "consummatum est" and it's an inversion of a baptism...
HIM: He only said consummatum, he got the Latin wrong again.
HER: The writers may have. And you had to look up the reference. Did you fail Divinity as well?
HIM: Being brought up Protestant is all that was required.
HER: Anyway, why say "I will accept your mercy or your penance" if he isn't asking God to decide his fate?
HIM: But by using the daggers himself, he's taking it back out of God's hands. Just a broken man justifying getting the fuck out of Dodge. And, incidentally, by taking on the duty of God in the act, making himself at least Apostate as well.
HER: Yeah, but-
HIM: And since in his cosmology suicide is a sin, even if God absolved him of all the earlier stuff, he'd still go to Hell for that.
HER: Well, he knows that and clearly accepts it, so that's bravery.
HIM: No, he just thinks the (meta)physical torments will be less painful than the mental ones he's got now.
HER: Anyways he also thinks he'll be going to meet Zita.
HIM: In Hell? I think she's in a very different place than the one he'd be going down to.
HER: And it's mythological, the triple-death.
HIM: No it isn't.
HER: Yes it is. Wrist-cutting, drowning, and... then woke up hanging.
HIM: That's not the triple-death. The triple-death is Myrddin Wyllt: Falling (impact damage), impalement, and drowning. He fell off a cliff, landed on driftwood that impaled him, and it held him until the tide came in and drowned him. It's just as well I wrote that chapter of the book on Wizards we just had come out...
HER: That's it, there's only one way to settle this. [grabs light and fast practical rapier] Outside.
HIM: Swords only, no daggers. [grabs heavier stage combat rapier]
HER: [grabs Riario type main gauche. Has advantage of lighter, faster, longer sword, and extra weapon]
[4 seconds and a painful "death" later]
HER: You bastard! That was my bruised ribs!
HIM: Riario would know the weak point is the best place to aim for. And a normal person would have guarded their weak point, not leave it more open than the rest of them.
HER: Fuck that! I still fought bravely. Sacrificed myself for Riario's honour.
HIM: No, you lost a trial by combat, which means God disagrees with you.
HER: God takes account of the Will, even if the power is lacking. Rematch!
[Two minutes and a full set of her regenerations later]
HER: [Lays sword at her maestro's feet.] Penance it is.
HIM: Clean those damn plates out of the living room.
HER: He's still a hero. He's on Campbell's Hero's journey, same as Leo's on the Magus myth.
HIM: He's on the journey, but he's not a hero yet. I expect that'll be for season 3.
HER: At least we both still hate Carlo.
HIM: Yeah.
HER: Whoa, Riario was so brave and heroic in what he did.
HIM: What part?
HER: Going into the river and cutting his wrists.
HIM: That's not heroic.
HER: Yes it is. Francesco tells him he won't get absolution until he dies, and he goes looking for Sixtus, who'd probably whip him at least, but Sixtus is in Naples, so Riario throws himself on the mercy of God - and if he needs to die to be absolved then he will. That's bravery.
HIM: No it isn't. For one thing it's selfishness - he just wants what *he* wants to feel better. Though really he's just justifying the fact that he has nowhere else to go, dramatically speaking.
HER: Yes, he puts in the hands of God.
HIM: Bollocks, he puts in his own hands with the daggers in them. And gets it wrong. Cold water make the veins shrink, and he'd never get the right angle, and that edge never reached the right wrist... Besides, if he was putting it in God's hands he'd be standing on a hilltop in wet armour in a thunderstorm going "well go on then, what's it to be, you cunt?!" But he didn't.
HER: He sacrifices himself!
HIM: No, that'd be throwing himself into a hopeless battle or something.
HER: It's an in imatatio Christi sacrifice. He says "consummatum est" and it's an inversion of a baptism...
HIM: He only said consummatum, he got the Latin wrong again.
HER: The writers may have. And you had to look up the reference. Did you fail Divinity as well?
HIM: Being brought up Protestant is all that was required.
HER: Anyway, why say "I will accept your mercy or your penance" if he isn't asking God to decide his fate?
HIM: But by using the daggers himself, he's taking it back out of God's hands. Just a broken man justifying getting the fuck out of Dodge. And, incidentally, by taking on the duty of God in the act, making himself at least Apostate as well.
HER: Yeah, but-
HIM: And since in his cosmology suicide is a sin, even if God absolved him of all the earlier stuff, he'd still go to Hell for that.
HER: Well, he knows that and clearly accepts it, so that's bravery.
HIM: No, he just thinks the (meta)physical torments will be less painful than the mental ones he's got now.
HER: Anyways he also thinks he'll be going to meet Zita.
HIM: In Hell? I think she's in a very different place than the one he'd be going down to.
HER: And it's mythological, the triple-death.
HIM: No it isn't.
HER: Yes it is. Wrist-cutting, drowning, and... then woke up hanging.
HIM: That's not the triple-death. The triple-death is Myrddin Wyllt: Falling (impact damage), impalement, and drowning. He fell off a cliff, landed on driftwood that impaled him, and it held him until the tide came in and drowned him. It's just as well I wrote that chapter of the book on Wizards we just had come out...
HER: That's it, there's only one way to settle this. [grabs light and fast practical rapier] Outside.
HIM: Swords only, no daggers. [grabs heavier stage combat rapier]
HER: [grabs Riario type main gauche. Has advantage of lighter, faster, longer sword, and extra weapon]
[4 seconds and a painful "death" later]
HER: You bastard! That was my bruised ribs!
HIM: Riario would know the weak point is the best place to aim for. And a normal person would have guarded their weak point, not leave it more open than the rest of them.
HER: Fuck that! I still fought bravely. Sacrificed myself for Riario's honour.
HIM: No, you lost a trial by combat, which means God disagrees with you.
HER: God takes account of the Will, even if the power is lacking. Rematch!
[Two minutes and a full set of her regenerations later]
HER: [Lays sword at her maestro's feet.] Penance it is.
HIM: Clean those damn plates out of the living room.
HER: He's still a hero. He's on Campbell's Hero's journey, same as Leo's on the Magus myth.
HIM: He's on the journey, but he's not a hero yet. I expect that'll be for season 3.
HER: At least we both still hate Carlo.
HIM: Yeah.