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Fights for writers
Apr. 12th, 2013 04:26 pmNow, it’s pretty rare that I do any actual writing advice in practical terms, because I prefer to leave that sort of thing to wiser heads than mine. The exception this is at conventions, of course, where a roundtable can bring a back and forth between everyone there, and a free-flowing thing is more my sort of preference than some sort of lecture or lesson.
So, I’d done just such a panel at Redemption 13, on “fight choreography for writers” – cos action scenes are something a lot of us, both writers and readers, tend to enjoy- especially in the more adventure-centred genres of SF and thrillers.
Julia Jones was taking down notes as we went, and posted them on this LiveJournal - http://julesjones.livejournal.com/561837.html (and this Dreamwidth - http://julesjones.dreamwidth.org/238245.html) - post, and has given me permission to repost them – and in this case, I’m going add additional details/comments as I remember them from the panel.
So, Julia said:
“David McIntee's panel on fight choreography for writers. No David, but several audience members. We talked amongst ourselves until David turned up late because he'd been running around doing ops stuff in preparation for the closing ceremony. This sort of thing is why I sidle gently away whenever anyone suggests that it's time for some fresh blood on concom.
I'm not going to attempt to turn my notes on David's panel into nice neat paragraphs -- they are reproduced verbatim below for the benefit of any writers who might find them useful.”
Here we go:
“Need to consider what sort of person and culture your character is, and how this affects the way they fight.”
In other words, different societies develop different styles, and different professions develop different styles. A good cop looking to take the bad guy in, a soldier looking to get past the guards, and a farmer driven to fight back against the local lord, will all have different styles and weapons.
“Real life fights usually have a long buildup, and end quickly on actual punch throwing -- see CCTV coverage.”
What it says above. In real life, folks do not spar like Olympic athletes for minutes on end. Usually there’s more taunting than anything else, then a punch or two, and at least one fighter is either fleeing, trying to staunch the blood flow, or being sat on and pummelled by their opponent(s).
“Archery: do not ‘fire an arrow’ unless you're setting fire to the arrow before loosing it.”
This is one of my bugbears in historical and fantasy fiction, and even the best writers, who should, and otherwise do, know better, do it. (Hello, GRRM). You see, back in the day to "fire" an arrow was to set fire to it so that it could be used as a signal or an incendiary warhead. The term "fire" meaning to launch a projectile from a weapon only came along much later, when firearms became common. So if you writing something set before the 17th century or thereabouts, you'd loose, shoot, or let fly an arrow (even if after you've set fire to it).
“Audio. Fighting is very visual, you don't want to have characters describing what's happening for the audience. Use the different sound channels to build a sound picture around the listener. Mix sound effects with realistic dialogue.”
Pretty much what it says.
“Deliberate dirtying of swords by sticking sword into ground to create infected wounds. Real story about doctor stripping to avoid cloth being carried into wound. By duelling pistol ball.”
This is an example of the sort of thing that really happened, historically, when fighting duels, so it’s the sort of thing you might want reflected in fiction that you want to be realistic. The doctor who stripped was Humphrey Howarth, MP for Evesham, who fought in his underpants in a duel against the Earl of Barrymore in 1806. Howarth had been an army surgeon in the East Indies before becoming an MP, and so knew that most fatalities from musket balls actually were caused by the cloth being carried into the wound. Everyone attending laughed because by this time he was a flabby old man, and, as it turned out he needn’t have bothered, as both men missed with their shots.
Believe it or not, pistols were actually brought to the fore for duelling because it was *safer* than fighting with swords -since the pistols were unrifled they were sufficiently inaccurate to be harmless most of the time, whereas sword duels usually led to infectious wounds on account of, yes, the tips being plunged into the ground to get dirty for that very purpose!
“Black powder very different to fire, much slower muzzle velocity than modern weapon.”
Just a spot of historical tidbit.
“Need right balance of show vs tell”
Obviously, but it’s even more important in fight scenes.
“Useful to move through stuff yourself to make sure its physically possible”
Or maybe it’s just me. But I did once get asked by an editor whether it was possible to kick someone in the head when standing as close together as the characters were, and was able to demonstrate that it was…
“But still needs to be plausible on the page, possible is not the same as believable.”
This is more important than you might think, and kind of relates to the previous point as well. It’s entirely likely that something that’s really possible may seem *less* possible when you write it down.
A good example, though not a fight, is from Dr No. In the novel, No sends a (genuinely, in real life) deadly centipede to kill James Bond in his bed. In the movie, they changed it to a (completely harmless!) tarantula. Why? Because the filmmakers recognised that nobody would have believed a centipede was deadly, while arachnophobia is so common, and the tarantula so nasty looking, that everybody would think it was deadly poisonous… And they were right.
“Can avoid repetitiveness by changing around what you show and what you tell in different fight scenes.”
At the panel I actually had everybody give a sample line of what could happen from a single opening move between two samurai. Say one rushes in, sword raised high, the other draws his blade in response – what happens next? Any number of things, from a long duel, a quick death, to the pin that holds a blade to the hilt snapping and the blade flying off into the bushes…
It could go with mechanical description, or with a few quick thoughts/feelings. Try it for yourself.
“Character may have an inappropriate response based on irrelevant past experience.”
Just because you react a certain way to a certain situation or stimulation does not mean you’ll react that way again. Anything might change it, from PTSD from the first time, to not having had enough coffee that morning.
“Need to provide proper motivation in story and in character for characters to fight, people don't fight just because author wants fight scene at that point.”
Again, you need to know why a character is fighting. Why that person specifically is taking that route.
“Escalation can happen at different speeds and indifferent ways.”
Again, depending on personalities and circumstances. Everybody has different triggers and buttons, and may not even know them until they’re hit.
“Physical reactions to injury can vary hugely.”
Everybody has different levels of fitness, pain tolerance, adrenaline, etc. One person may be startled out of the fight by a stinging slap, while another may not notice a deep stab wound or broken bones until much later. (and, um, yeah, I speak from experience here!)
“The winner of a knife fight is the one first to the emergency room.”
Unlike in the movies, it’s actually relatively rare for a stabbed person to just drop dead on this spot (though this does also happen too often.) More often, adrenaline blinds people to stab wound or cuts until it wears off later, and they bleed out some time and distance away from the fight.
“Plan your cuts to make it look as if he attacked you....”
Um, yeah we’ll gloss over what I actually said in that bit, cos it was a little naughty. Suffice to say that if ever I write a CSI thing…
So, I’d done just such a panel at Redemption 13, on “fight choreography for writers” – cos action scenes are something a lot of us, both writers and readers, tend to enjoy- especially in the more adventure-centred genres of SF and thrillers.
Julia Jones was taking down notes as we went, and posted them on this LiveJournal - http://julesjones.livejournal.com/561837.html (and this Dreamwidth - http://julesjones.dreamwidth.org/238245.html) - post, and has given me permission to repost them – and in this case, I’m going add additional details/comments as I remember them from the panel.
So, Julia said:
“David McIntee's panel on fight choreography for writers. No David, but several audience members. We talked amongst ourselves until David turned up late because he'd been running around doing ops stuff in preparation for the closing ceremony. This sort of thing is why I sidle gently away whenever anyone suggests that it's time for some fresh blood on concom.
I'm not going to attempt to turn my notes on David's panel into nice neat paragraphs -- they are reproduced verbatim below for the benefit of any writers who might find them useful.”
Here we go:
“Need to consider what sort of person and culture your character is, and how this affects the way they fight.”
In other words, different societies develop different styles, and different professions develop different styles. A good cop looking to take the bad guy in, a soldier looking to get past the guards, and a farmer driven to fight back against the local lord, will all have different styles and weapons.
“Real life fights usually have a long buildup, and end quickly on actual punch throwing -- see CCTV coverage.”
What it says above. In real life, folks do not spar like Olympic athletes for minutes on end. Usually there’s more taunting than anything else, then a punch or two, and at least one fighter is either fleeing, trying to staunch the blood flow, or being sat on and pummelled by their opponent(s).
“Archery: do not ‘fire an arrow’ unless you're setting fire to the arrow before loosing it.”
This is one of my bugbears in historical and fantasy fiction, and even the best writers, who should, and otherwise do, know better, do it. (Hello, GRRM). You see, back in the day to "fire" an arrow was to set fire to it so that it could be used as a signal or an incendiary warhead. The term "fire" meaning to launch a projectile from a weapon only came along much later, when firearms became common. So if you writing something set before the 17th century or thereabouts, you'd loose, shoot, or let fly an arrow (even if after you've set fire to it).
“Audio. Fighting is very visual, you don't want to have characters describing what's happening for the audience. Use the different sound channels to build a sound picture around the listener. Mix sound effects with realistic dialogue.”
Pretty much what it says.
“Deliberate dirtying of swords by sticking sword into ground to create infected wounds. Real story about doctor stripping to avoid cloth being carried into wound. By duelling pistol ball.”
This is an example of the sort of thing that really happened, historically, when fighting duels, so it’s the sort of thing you might want reflected in fiction that you want to be realistic. The doctor who stripped was Humphrey Howarth, MP for Evesham, who fought in his underpants in a duel against the Earl of Barrymore in 1806. Howarth had been an army surgeon in the East Indies before becoming an MP, and so knew that most fatalities from musket balls actually were caused by the cloth being carried into the wound. Everyone attending laughed because by this time he was a flabby old man, and, as it turned out he needn’t have bothered, as both men missed with their shots.
Believe it or not, pistols were actually brought to the fore for duelling because it was *safer* than fighting with swords -since the pistols were unrifled they were sufficiently inaccurate to be harmless most of the time, whereas sword duels usually led to infectious wounds on account of, yes, the tips being plunged into the ground to get dirty for that very purpose!
“Black powder very different to fire, much slower muzzle velocity than modern weapon.”
Just a spot of historical tidbit.
“Need right balance of show vs tell”
Obviously, but it’s even more important in fight scenes.
“Useful to move through stuff yourself to make sure its physically possible”
Or maybe it’s just me. But I did once get asked by an editor whether it was possible to kick someone in the head when standing as close together as the characters were, and was able to demonstrate that it was…
“But still needs to be plausible on the page, possible is not the same as believable.”
This is more important than you might think, and kind of relates to the previous point as well. It’s entirely likely that something that’s really possible may seem *less* possible when you write it down.
A good example, though not a fight, is from Dr No. In the novel, No sends a (genuinely, in real life) deadly centipede to kill James Bond in his bed. In the movie, they changed it to a (completely harmless!) tarantula. Why? Because the filmmakers recognised that nobody would have believed a centipede was deadly, while arachnophobia is so common, and the tarantula so nasty looking, that everybody would think it was deadly poisonous… And they were right.
“Can avoid repetitiveness by changing around what you show and what you tell in different fight scenes.”
At the panel I actually had everybody give a sample line of what could happen from a single opening move between two samurai. Say one rushes in, sword raised high, the other draws his blade in response – what happens next? Any number of things, from a long duel, a quick death, to the pin that holds a blade to the hilt snapping and the blade flying off into the bushes…
It could go with mechanical description, or with a few quick thoughts/feelings. Try it for yourself.
“Character may have an inappropriate response based on irrelevant past experience.”
Just because you react a certain way to a certain situation or stimulation does not mean you’ll react that way again. Anything might change it, from PTSD from the first time, to not having had enough coffee that morning.
“Need to provide proper motivation in story and in character for characters to fight, people don't fight just because author wants fight scene at that point.”
Again, you need to know why a character is fighting. Why that person specifically is taking that route.
“Escalation can happen at different speeds and indifferent ways.”
Again, depending on personalities and circumstances. Everybody has different triggers and buttons, and may not even know them until they’re hit.
“Physical reactions to injury can vary hugely.”
Everybody has different levels of fitness, pain tolerance, adrenaline, etc. One person may be startled out of the fight by a stinging slap, while another may not notice a deep stab wound or broken bones until much later. (and, um, yeah, I speak from experience here!)
“The winner of a knife fight is the one first to the emergency room.”
Unlike in the movies, it’s actually relatively rare for a stabbed person to just drop dead on this spot (though this does also happen too often.) More often, adrenaline blinds people to stab wound or cuts until it wears off later, and they bleed out some time and distance away from the fight.
“Plan your cuts to make it look as if he attacked you....”
Um, yeah we’ll gloss over what I actually said in that bit, cos it was a little naughty. Suffice to say that if ever I write a CSI thing…